EMDR Remedy and Psychological Well being Assist with Susie Morgan, LMFT, BCETS

Betty Rocker (00:15):

What’s up, Rockstars Coach Betty Rocker right here, and I’m actually glad you’re right here too. In some unspecified time in the future, you might have heard me discuss a sort of remedy that I used referred to as EMDR, which stands for Eye Motion Desensitization and Reprocessing. And it’s actually identified for its capability to deal with PTSD and traumatic occasions. There’s a number of totally different sorts of therapeutic practices on the market, and with regards to our psychological well being, it’s actually necessary to discover a good match and the suitable instruments for addressing our particular person considerations so we will reside extra full and significant lives. After going by a extremely troublesome interval of my very own life and being recognized with anxiousness and despair, one of many suggestions I used to be given was to hunt EMDR remedy.

(01:02)
I’ll share a bit extra about my expertise with it on the present as we speak as a result of the particular person I’ve introduced to speak to us is the superb therapist I labored with, and I’m actually excited so that you can meet her. She actually helped me change my mind and my life. Susie Morgan is a licensed marriage and household therapist, board licensed knowledgeable in trauma stress, and an authorized EMDR therapist specializing within the remedy of complicated PTSD and attachment trauma. Along with her observe, she’s additionally an E-M-D-R-I-A permitted guide and coach, and the founding father of the Precision EMDR Academy, a boutique coaching company that equips and mentors clinicians to offer protected and efficient EMDR remedy. She is devoted to offering each a excessive stage of care in her personal therapeutic observe and advancing the excellence within the discipline of EMDR. I felt that she was uniquely outfitted to share extra about EMDR with us and offer you a way of what it’s used for, who may profit from it, and how much issues it treats, and the way to discover and vet a terrific practitioner. So be part of me in welcoming her to the present. Welcome, Susie. It’s so nice to have you ever right here with me. Thanks a lot for being right here.

Susie Morgan (02:22):

Thanks for having me. That is completely my honor, so thanks.

Betty Rocker (02:26):

Oh my gosh. Effectively, I’ve been so excited to have a dialog about EMDR so that individuals would study it, individuals who’ve possibly heard about it will get extra conversant in it, as a result of I really feel prefer it’s type of, it’s a more recent observe with regards to the therapeutic arts within the larger scheme of remedy. Is that appropriate?

Susie Morgan (02:51):

Sure and no, as a result of that’s a bit of little bit of a false impression as a result of it’s actually been round since 1987. And so what which means is that although it’s not as outdated as clearly like Freudian remedy and people actually conventional fashions or cognitive behavioral, it, it isn’t new. And so it’s, it truly has had loads of time to truly develop out an extremely sturdy, like encyclopedia of analysis, not solely exhibiting that it treats PTSD, but in addition a spread of different problems that individuals can current with. And so it’s truly a false impression that it’s new, it’s simply newer that individuals learn about it and

Betty Rocker (03:34):

Newer that individuals learn about it. Effectively, would possibly, like I ought to ask the primary query, which is, what does EMDR stand for and what does it particularly deal with? As a result of I feel that’s actually fascinating. It’s, it’s very distinctive within the therapeutic arts.

Susie Morgan (03:50):

Okay. So the, the inventor of EMDR would’ve renamed it. She stated if she had had an opportunity, however by the point it was extra well-known and being researched, she was like, okay, that is what it’s referred to as. So it stands for eye motion desensitization and reprocessing. And so let me break that down. So it makes use of eye motion. Historically, you should use different means to permit for the, the mind to mainly replicate what occurs throughout REM sleep, we predict with a view to truly reconsolidate recollections. And so you should use different duties, different bilateral varieties of motion with, with tactile and even tones with a view to create this impact. In order that’s the attention motion a part of it. It’s utilizing this particular bilateral, units of actions with a view to stimulate the mind to enter right into a reminiscence reconsolidation mode. After which the desensitization and reprocessing are the 2 issues that it’s doing.

(04:53)
What it’s doing is it’s taking the activation of those recollections and desensitizing that. So taking, taking the cost out of it, taking that chew out of the reminiscence, after which it’s reprocessing it. So it’s truly connecting it as much as adaptive data and adaptive data. Is that this actuality based mostly or soothing or, optimistic data that claims it’s over and actually undoes the training and connects it as much as what truly the mind already is aware of. However when a reminiscence is maladaptively saved, it doesn’t soak up the entire context of issues. It doesn’t soak up the truth that issues are over or that the truth is, although you realize it’s true, prefer it doesn’t really feel true. So it it, it connects all that up.

Betty Rocker (05:39):

What’s the eye motion a part of eye motion desensitization reprocessing? Is your eye simply going backwards and forwards otherwise you snapping your fingers? What’s taking place? Is there lights?

Susie Morgan (05:49):

So over time, devices have been invented and since mainly the secret is you are attempting to have that shopper’s eyes travel throughout the sphere division as quickly as they will bodily tolerate whereas holding the reminiscence materials in thoughts. And so you’ll be able to have somebody, holding a, you realize, a set of buzzers of their palms that mild up and so they can look backwards and forwards between the lights. The buzzing can also be another that permits there to be a tactile stage of stimulation for that backwards and forwards in order that, individuals who can’t use their eyes for this course of truly can have an efficient type of bilateral stimulation. There are eye, like, like eye motion machines the place mainly you’ll be able to, you’ll be able to comply with a light-weight bar backwards and forwards, or there’s like these bins you’ll be able to maintain that can trigger your lights to return, trigger your eyes to travel as you comply with the lights.

(06:49)
There are pc applications which have a bit of bouncing ball that travel, however backside line is you don’t want machines. You simply want some mechanism for eyes to travel. So I do, I do EMDR on-line on a regular basis now with none equipment in any respect, with none particular applications. I simply have folks pinching their fingers backwards and forwards with their eyes held a few shoulder width aside. They comply with their very own pinches, and that produces the efficient eye motion. However mainly what we’ve proven in analysis is that eye motion is the best strategy to create the reminiscence reconsolidation course of that we’re in search of. Nevertheless, these different strategies tactile and, an auditory can produce an identical stage, however there does appear to be greater than, extra at play than simply that your eyes are going backwards and forwards. There may be, there’s the likelihood that that’s, activating a rem like mechanism of sleep.

(07:48)
We see chemical, chemical, related chemical substances produced within the mind, related brainwaves. It additionally seems that work taxing working reminiscence is likely one of the explanation why it’s efficient. It’s not as comfy, it’s not as enjoyable to have to truly like, like do a flowery patterning together with your fingers when you have the buzzing or matching your eye actions together with your pinches. However that really causes the troublesome reminiscence materials to metabolize quicker. However for those who overtax working reminiscence, you lower on that reprocessing portion. So it’s, there’s sort of a candy spot, and it’s totally different for every particular person on how a lot, how laborious we would like them to work whereas they’re doing the bilateral processing.

Betty Rocker (08:35):

What’s a, what’s a superb instance of a maladaptive reminiscence that somebody might need that was not connecting? Proper? Or what occurs in, in remedy?

Susie Morgan (08:46):

So an instance of a, a trauma reminiscence could be a canine chew. So a bit of lady, she’s in her entrance yard, A canine comes by, bites her. There’s two methods the mind can go along with that. One we might name maladaptive. One we might name adaptive. And so it, it, and the distinction is how does the reminiscence find yourself being saved by the mind, which components of the mind are concerned? And so if it’s maladaptively saved, it will get at, it will get saved in virtually like this unique type. Like all the, the visible sight sounds feels of that second are identical to encapsulated in time. And so she may be 30 years outdated and it feels prefer it occurred yesterday when she thinks of it. So it, it shops scorching within the visible cortex of the mind, the emotional cortex of the mind. And the fascinating factor is the logical components of the mind that claims it’s over, you’re protected now. That type of factor. The, that entire piece of the mind doesn’t even come on-line. So it’s all sight sounds, feels, and feelings, and it’s scorching and it’s saved that means moderately than it’s over, I’m protected. It occurred a very long time in the past. Now I do know that, you realize, you need to, you realize, sort of just be sure you don’t simply pet a canine. You don’t know , that sort of factor,

Betty Rocker (10:10):

Proper? So, so the expertise that an individual would have who had these two totally different storages of the reminiscence is one little lady is perhaps afraid of canine endlessly as a result of that reminiscence’s at all times burning vibrant and burning scorching with all of that saved stuff the place the opposite little lady who’s,  it’s not saved in a destructive means. She simply is extra cautious in approaching canine the place the opposite lady is perhaps afraid to strategy a canine in that sense. Yeah. So the, the trauma impacts how we behave in several methods transferring ahead is what you’re saying

Susie Morgan (10:40):

In that type of adaptive versus maladaptive piece. Adaptive is, I’m protected now on a really primary stage and I can preserve myself protected now, or it’s, I’m not protected. And so the physique goes in a combat or flight, if something reminds the nervous system of that incident. And there’s truly three varieties of trauma I consider that actually, actually matter. And so it’s very a lot increasing out the definition of the phrase in a, in a means that I feel is essential as a result of there’s so many individuals who say, nicely, I don’t have trauma. I wasn’t at conflict, I wasn’t assaulted, that sort of factor. So, so EMDR remedy isn’t for me or pondering of myself as having trauma that I would want to reprocess by that might be affecting my signs.  That simply doesn’t, that simply doesn’t come of their conceptualization

Betty Rocker (11:30):

Certain.

Susie Morgan (11:31):

Of what they’re coping with, and due to this fact it stops them from getting assist they might get. So the three varieties of trauma that I feel are actually necessary to grasp are that huge T trauma. In order that’s classically what we perceive as, yeah, blood hearth conflict assault, that’s what that’s conceptualized as. Then you’ve got, little t traumas or what are opposed life occasions. And these are issues that usually folks, you realize, another person may have a look at that and be like, nicely, that’s no huge deal. So that is like bullying. Or it’s issues like, you realize, somebody, somebody being a jerk at work or somebody calling you a reputation on the playground or your sister leaving you out, like that sort of factor. So, so these are your little, little to your opposed life occasions. However truly what’s much more important, I feel, is knowing complicated with complicated, developmental trauma, which is extra widespread than you may suppose, is when early attachment wants aren’t met.

(12:32)
And, or then if there’s additionally some abuse or issues like that in these early years that it, that’s actually truly what can create the longest and most pervasive points with anxiousness, despair, all types of issues that we simply consider like, oh, these are psychological well being points, when truly, if we return, we’re wanting on the absence of attunement and even the absence of play, which is fascinating. The absence of safety. This, you realize, simply not having the steerage you want, like the way to shave your legs, the way to cope with a, a bully peer. Like all of those totally different items actually make a distinction within the capability of that particular person’s nervous system to face up to the stressors that can come. And so oftentimes when these type of developmental early attachment wants aren’t met, then you’ve got extra of a, of a susceptibility for the mind to maladaptively maintain these later occasions. So it’s, it’s actually tough.

Betty Rocker (13:38):

Effectively, not, I feel you defined it fantastically in order that the three varieties, there’s the large Ts, there’s the, the little ts, that are, what did you name them? Opposed occasions. After which there’s additionally the attachment points. And, and attachment principle is completely fascinating. I keep in mind that you beneficial the guide hooked up to me years in the past, and it was so useful in a, a, giving me a framework of understanding the distinction between the, anxious avoidant and the safe attachment types, that are these three attachment types. And simply saying them, it, it makes a lot sense why anxious and avoidant could be so polarized for those who guys take into consideration that. It’s so fascinating. After which how can we create safety, proper? And, and totally different points of our life. However, that was, that was actually fascinating that that comes into play in, in what’s handled inside the scope of EMDR. We wanna speak a bit of bit extra about that. ’trigger I feel that’s so fascinating.

Susie Morgan (14:41):

Yeah, I’d like to as a result of it’s, it’s a lot what is available in to the workplace when individuals are saying, my relationships are simply not working mm-hmm . Or I preserve moving into the identical sort of type of damaging dynamic with my companions. Mm. And so, so what occurs when these early attachment wants aren’t met is a bit of nervous system is so sensible and so clever to type of learn the room of the connection with their caregivers, and so they truly can learn the room in a different way with totally different caregivers relying on what, what might be best for his or her must be met. And, and to contextualize this, little mammals can’t survive with out their caregivers attunement to them or their, not attunement, however with out them assembly their wants. Mainly. Like little mammals die if their caregiver sort of leaves them by the facet of the street with out issues. And so people are not any totally different.

(15:40)
And so an toddler or a toddler or issues like that can understand if I cry extra, you come, if I cry much less, you don’t get so mad at me. That type of factor. Mm-hmm. And so what finally ends up taking place if you simply have a look at anxious versus avoidant anxious is, I cry extra, you’ll come mm-hmm. Avoidant is, I cry much less, I’m extra prone to get my wants met, I’m safer right here. After which you’ve got these very unhappy conditions the place the, the early surroundings is so harsh and is so each neglectful of those attachment wants in addition to damaging by abuse or issues like that, that the nervous system will study. Like, okay, typically I cry louder, typically I shut down. Prefer it’s this entire like, like dance of simply to attempt to get wants met in no matter little tiny means that they will. And the factor is, as soon as the mind locks in on these items, identical to trauma recollections, as soon as the mind locks in on these attachments methods or these variations to their en their early surroundings ring retains doing the identical factor over and again and again, whether or not or not the surroundings modifications.

(16:49)
And finally the saddest half that I see in my, in my workplace is little nervous methods as they develop up, select most naturally what seems like dwelling. And they also’ll repeat what they, they went by once they had been small, pondering they’re doing one thing totally different, however then touchdown in the identical sort of of relationship. After which, after which concluding, I’m the issue. It’s as a result of I’m nugatory, I’m unlovable, or regardless of the case is perhaps. When finally, like that isn’t the case. It’s actually simply that their nervous system doesn’t know the way to do one thing totally different. In order that’s the actually cool stuff we will do with superior expertise with EMDR remedy is not only remedy these recollections. Like we don’t simply reprocess recollections. We truly can truly restore and restore the attachment system. So it’s, it’s fairly magic what’s doable and

Betty Rocker (17:44):

All of that, whether or not you’re treating trauma, reminiscence or attachment that’s gotten, it’s, I’m simply picturing like a rug that obtained all bunched up and Proper. It’s not, it’s not easy, whether or not you’re treating any of these various things, the, the first consequence is a way of safety, a way of security within the self, a way of self that’s mm-hmm . Secure and entire and, and sufficient, proper. For thus many people who, who, you realize, search remedy. One factor that I’ve been studying rather a lot these days, and it’s so unusual as a result of we had been gonna have this dialog and I needed to ask you about it. How do we all know that the remedy that we’re doing is correct for us? That’s undoubtedly a query. And, and two, like, why is it that there’s a lot remedy that simply doesn’t appear to work, I suppose like, yeah, what’s happening with that?

Susie Morgan (18:41):

So a number of the rationale why remedy doesn’t work is as a result of it doesn’t truly change the way in which the nervous system is working. And so what you’re doing is you’re utilizing actually what, what may be actually highly effective instruments, however it’s extra like manually shifting a automobile moderately than having driving an automated, mainly the place it’s important to use these expertise with a view to shift the mind into that adaptive functioning. So one of many issues that I feel is admittedly, actually necessary for, for EMDR therapists to grasp the way to do, and it hasn’t been historically skilled, however is to actually have the ability to map out what are the first trauma reminiscence networks, the methods the mind has clustered collectively numerous experiences, after which is working out of those maladaptive beliefs. So that you’ll have that canine chew, however then now mother is, you realize, mother is late selecting you up from daycare, and one way or the other the mind goes, yep, I’m not protected once more.

(19:44)
Otherwise you stroll by a barking canine, who’s actually scary on the way in which to soccer observe, and the mind goes, yep, not protected once more. After which it, it’s mainly placing all these recollections collectively right into a cluster and saying, right here’s my proof of idea, I’m not protected. After which something that triggers that trauma, reminiscence community, lights up all of that cluster of experiences, after which the nervous system responds to that. So oftentimes a, a shopper who is available in has a number of clusters, so that they have one cluster proving I’m not protected. Possibly one other cluster saying I’m unlovable, one other cluster saying I don’t belong, or no matter it’s. Like it may be any number of these. And so if now we have that lay of the land, that may be actually useful for us figuring out, okay, this, this, I’m not protected is linked to those panic signs, or this, I’m not lovable, is linked to those attachment type of anxious attachment sort methods, regardless of the case is perhaps.

(20:44)
However then now we have this different superb reminiscence community that each one of us have. It’s only for a few of us, it’s, it’s extra nicely developed than others. And it’s the adaptive data community. It’s all these experiences of, of, you realize, studying or of being cherished or of being restored ultimately, or having, you realize, a way of belonging as a part of a tradition or a part of a, you realize, a part of a spiritual observe or a part of a, of a religious group. These, these finest buddies or these, these animals that simply love us it doesn’t matter what. All of that. And I consider these as bushes. So so mainly there’s, there’s one thing that planted the tree by way of the, these darkish trauma reminiscence networks. There’s an occasion that planted the tree, after which the tree simply grew up and obtained greater with all of these different occasions that obtained clustered collectively.

(21:37)
Effectively, this, this mild tree, this adaptive data tree of data additionally has, has a means by which it was planted. That’s that early attachment system. In order that’s the trunk of that tree. And a few folks have a spindly trunk, which suggests they’re rather more vulnerable to the wind blowing after which being taken off steadiness. After which additionally they can have numerous ranges of levels by which that adaptive data community has been constructed out by all of those different optimistic and experiences of resilience, experiences of success, experiences of overcoming all that jazz, so, so lengthy strategy to, to put the inspiration for the reply to your query is mainly therapies, I feel do considered one of two issues. One is they assist improve that mild tree of adaptive data. So if you’re studying meditation, if you’re studying how to consider the optimistic, the way to deal with what’s true about you, all of that, you’re actually enhancing and specializing in that adaptive data reminiscence community.

(22:45)
And, and so there’s a lot that’s optimistic and highly effective about a number of the therapies on the market that try this. Then there’s one other, sort of sort of remedy like cognitive behavioral, the place what it’s doing is it’s, it’s permitting you to problem that activation of that destructive reminiscence community and saying, yeah, however bear in mind it’s not true. And so that you try this, that guide shifting by type of logic your self into the sunshine tree. However that’s actually laborious and might really feel like gaslighting truthfully, if you’re like, however my nervous system says the trauma is what’s true. Not this different logic stuff that I’d know in my head.

Betty Rocker (23:28):

That simply is a part of what I suppose I’ve been listening to from folks typically once they say, you realize, speak remedy or sure varieties of speak remedy, I really feel like I’m simply rehashing these uncomfortable issues again and again with out actually getting anyplace. I’m simply spinning my wheels.

Susie Morgan (23:41):

That’s one other sort of remedy. So there may be, there are varieties of remedy the place the concept is that if now we have perception or if we speak sufficient by it, then you definately’ll get higher. So which means you sit at midnight hint, you sit in these trauma reminiscence networks throughout trauma, the, throughout your remedy, and that’s speculated to theoretically make you’re feeling higher, however it doesn’t truly essentially try this as a result of all you’re doing is type of dwelling within the darkness. And so individuals are like, nicely, I don’t wanna go to my previous. I wanna do these different issues. Effectively, that’s nice. Now all you’re doing is manually shifting into the lightness. So what we’re in search of is one thing that really reconsolidate the reminiscence truly shifts the, the, the, the training that’s occurred within the nervous system. And EMDR will not be the one present on the town that may try this. There are different therapies that really may be efficient with reminiscence. Reconsolidation, EMDR remedy is only one the place we do get constant outcomes with that when it’s accomplished correctly. And in order that’s, yeah.

Betty Rocker (24:42):

That’s, that’s the R and the EMDR, the reprocessing half. Sure. Yeah, that’s the place the combination occurs. So I’ll share a bit of bit, that, you realize, however my listeners don’t. Once I first began doing EMDR remedy with Susie, it’s been a number of years now since we did this nice work collectively, and we spent a few years doing it. I bear in mind at first I used to be like, nicely, when are we, when can we get to do the EMDR? Like, when are we gonna get to that half? And what was actually superb is her strategy was so considerate. She was, she went in and realized the place now I do know the lingo, in fact I didn’t on the time, my clusters, she was in search of the place are the, the networks right here that I have to work with. She deliberately realized the panorama of this thoughts that she was then going to be going into with like her advantageous devices and serving to to reprocess.

(25:38)
Proper? So like, that was such an necessary a part of that work. I feel that, that for those who don’t learn about it, you, you don’t know what you don’t know, proper? However I feel it’s so necessary. And there’ve been, and there have been additionally issues that you just did at first that I’ve by no means forgotten. You gave me instruments. I bear in mind a few of the superb instruments that you just gave me to assist me have a way of safety, to have a way of security. After which in fact, the precise observe of EMDR, which is so superb. It’s so troublesome to do the work typically, however it’s additionally so necessary. It’s like, you realize, you guys, like if you do a extremely robust exercise, , such as you gotta put within the work to get the consequence. However it felt like there was a real consequence coming at the same time as I used to be going by the troublesome points of it.

(26:26)
And it, it, I used to attempt to clarify what it was love to do, to be an a, a affected person going by E-M-D-R, for those who guys have seen the film “Inside Out,” that is like the easiest way that I can clarify it. There’s this place that, that they go what’s, which is just like the reminiscence financial institution, and it’s all of those glowing balls of sunshine that they’ve simply stacked up and stacked up and stacked up. And so I at all times pictured just like the trauma recollections as like these like gnarly black balls of sunshine that, that had been like saved within the reminiscence financial institution, that, that had been truly infecting all the opposite recollections. As a result of that’s what occurs together with your, with the issues which can be what we name maladaptive. Appropriate. Is that proper terminology? Yeah. So the maladaptive recollections that didn’t truly get processed accurately at first, these are like now infecting the remainder of your recollections.

(27:14)
And so you’ve got these reactions to issues that you may’t actually management. It’s like bugs in your working system if you would like like a pc terminology for it. And it was like going by doing the work of the EMDR, you’re like altering the material again to one thing easy. We will return to that rug instance the place the rug was all bunched up and we’re like smoothing out the rug. And now when one thing comes up that was once an actual set off or one thing that may, you’ll have like this unavoidable response that you just had no management over, it’s now not there, it’s simply not even a set off. You continue to have the reminiscence of the factor, however it’s not lit up anymore. And I feel that was so profound for me of just like the expertise of EMDR, of like how a lot it modified the material of my precise being.

(27:58)
Like I felt like I turned just like the model of myself. I used to be at all times meant to be by going by that work. And so it makes a number of sense. This care that’s taken all through the method, particularly at first, as a result of I’ve had buddies inform me – oh why, when – I’ve despatched buddies to EMDR and so they’re like why when do I get to do the EMDR? I’m like, let your therapist do these actually necessary items initially as a result of they’ll allow you to get a greater end in the long run. So I feel it’s fascinating the way it

Susie Morgan (28:32):

Works. There’s so many items that you just simply stated which can be so necessary that I wanna virtually give the again of the home understanding of a bit. Please, please. The, the why. In order that unique query you requested of like, nicely, how are you aware for those who’re in the suitable place together with your therapist? Yeah. And I feel there’s that bigger query of like, are you doing a remedy that really modifications the way in which the nervous system is holding the recollections? And, so that you’re re remodeling that entire factor so that you mechanically reply in a different way. It’s not that guide management, however if you’re searching for out an EMDR therapist, whether or not or not they take this, this primary like part of the work actually severely is a extremely huge part for deciding whether or not or not you’re in the suitable place.

Betty Rocker (29:22):

Mm.

Susie Morgan (29:22):

And oftentimes, this isn’t the fault of the therapist, it’s the fault of the way it’s historically been skilled the place actually it’s such as you do sort of like this, this fast, this fast intro and then you definately simply soar into, to processing trauma recollections. However that’s the place now we have folks having actually unhealthy experiences. And the primary purpose is as a result of folks, folks aren’t essentially prepared for that but. And or the, the therapist doesn’t essentially have the, the readiness of getting a superb remedy plan in place with a view to know why we’re gonna begin right here and go there and go there. And so once I was doing all of these early, sort of items of labor with you, it’s, it’s truly there, it’s twofold. One is, I truly, I’m, I’m purposefully mapping, I’m purposefully providing you with instruments that matter in your expertise of being within the work, however I’m additionally waiting for very, very key points that point out your mind is prepared to do that, that your nervous system can do sure issues.

(30:28)
And so every little thing I’m doing has a twin goal. It’s each getting you prepared, constructing that readiness if I have to do extra of one thing, but in addition seeing what’s there and seeing whether or not or not that that further sort of prep work is prepared. After which the opposite piece, and that is, that is simply because I wish to point out it, that piece about that grownup, like strongest wisest self being there for little you, that’s the core key function to attachment restore. It’s growing out that grownup self to offer little you what nobody else has been capable of give us totally and to attract from the fashions of those that have possibly in items and issues like that. However finally, repairing the attachment system is figuring out deep down that you just’ve obtained you and that you just’ve

Betty Rocker (31:19):

Bought you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s so Effectively, that’s so nicely stated. And, and this work is so profound as a result of I feel, our tradition will not be alone in being one which has a number of addictive compulsive sort of points, however it definitely has so many, and, and I feel this have to be one thing that presents in, in your observe so typically is habit sort of labor. Mm-hmm . Like so many individuals, I imply, now we have habit to purchasing, to alcohol, to medication, to intercourse, to, how, I don’t know, so many alternative issues. So I might think about that EMDR is admittedly useful in supporting the discount of addictive conduct. And and the way does it try this particularly? I,

Susie Morgan (32:07):

Effectively, some of the latest sort of necessary items of sort of connecting the dots that’s been made got here by the ACEs examine. And I’m undecided for those who or your listeners are conversant in it, however it’s the opposed Childhood Experiences examine. And like EMDR, it’s truly been round for nearly as a lot time, however it didn’t actually get any press till extra just lately. However it’s a very primary examine that has simply been accomplished on monumental hoards of individuals at this level. And it’s even, replicated by the, the CDC at this level. So we’re capable of see it’s true throughout populations that early childhood opposed experiences, even when they occur simply as soon as, they create a vulnerability within the nervous system to develop psychological well being points, to develop bodily well being points and to develop addictions. And so, and it’s exponentially extra highly effective than anybody would ever suppose.

(33:03)
And so addictions is one thing that we very a lot can see. Early childhood trauma actually potentiates that vulnerability to habit later. And what’s fascinating by way of EMDR remedy and trauma reminiscence networks and all of that’s this concept that habit has actually two parts which can be happening with reminiscence networks. One is the trauma is a driver, in order that that ache goes to drive you to the factor that eases the ache. The opposite factor although, is the pull of the habit. And you may even have maladaptively linked optimistic recollections which can be the, the important thing to the mind persevering with to hunt the excessive or the necessity being met by this addictive conduct or substance, even when there’s tons and tons of penalties, or for those who by no means obtain that top to that diploma. Once more,

Betty Rocker (33:58):

I virtually perceive what you imply by optimistic maladaptive. It’s virtually prefer it, are you able to simply make clear that a bit of bit extra? Yeah,

Susie Morgan (34:06):

Yeah, completely. So the instance I realized from the one who I first realized this from, was an instance of the, you realize, a a bit of, a bit of boy who had an abusive father. And his dad was actually, actually into taking part in playing cards, was actually into poker. And and in a while, this man has now’s now presenting in remedy as a result of he has a playing habit. He’s misplaced his home, he’s misplaced his household, he’s misplaced every little thing. So we’re gonna assume, okay, nicely, he realized about, he realized about playing from little, in order that’s simply what he grew as much as do, proper? Like, it’s that straightforward, however it’s not, the place it truly solidified in his mind was, so bear in mind he has this trauma of neglect and, and abuse from his dad. Effectively, at some point, you realize, one of many guys isn’t there for the poker recreation. So dad invitations his son to the poker desk that’s the place his mind hastily felt cherished. His mind hastily felt seen and included and seen by his dad. And fireworks go off within the mind. And it’s like that soldering of one thing the place it’s identical to, Ooh, poker equals I’m cherished, I’m lovable. And so from then on, doesn’t matter how a lot he loses, doesn’t matter all the results, the mind doesn’t even like take note of any of that information. It’s coming, however it doesn’t matter. He retains searching for that should be met on the poker desk at no matter price.

Betty Rocker (35:45):

Bought it. Bought it. That’s a terrific instance, proper? That made a lot sense. You possibly can see how addictions can type of so many differing types due to the complexity of that layer, these layers collectively. Like that’s, and that have to be very laborious to unwind for folks due to what a strong urge that’s, like at a deep core stage to be cherished, to be belong. These are deep human wants that all of us have, and once they’re not met, once we’re youthful, after which they’ve these layers on prime of them, and we’re simply on the market making an attempt to be grownups, coping with life and all of our many duties and, and repeating outdated patterns again and again and never understanding why, for example. So who wants EMDR? Who could be a superb candidate for EMDR, would you say? I imply, we’ve talked about a number of issues, however I feel lots of people listening are figuring out sure issues in what we’re speaking about. So let’s simply make it plain and easy. Like who could be a superb candidate?

Susie Morgan (36:46):

I suppose there’s somebody on the market who wouldn’t, however I haven’t met them. And, I imply, there are these individuals who actually grew up with that actually sturdy early attachment expertise. Their wants had been met. And, and I’ve seen these shoppers are available as a result of that they had one single actually unhealthy t like huge T trauma, and but their stuff resolves like that. Like that’s the place you see this like magic occur. Prefer it’s, it may be a matter of two classes and one thing horrific, identical to is is totally reprocessed by the nervous system

Betty Rocker (37:24):

As a result of they’ve a strong and safe attachment fashion and safety in themselves to begin with. Their basis is, is admittedly robust. After which from there, therapeutic is less complicated, I suppose you’ll say, proper?

Susie Morgan (37:37):

Sure. In order that they’re confronted with traumas, they’re confronted with various things, and their mind is like, oh, I’ve obtained this. And it, and it, it, you realize, it takes that, that adaptive data reminiscence community and simply wraps it round and it’s identical to, yep. Like I realized from that. Now it’s over and off you go. Hmm. So there are folks on the market who’re like that, they’re simply extra uncommon.

(38:00)
Hmm. The remainder of us , and I say that together with myself, have much more vulnerability to those various things. And so when somebody is saying, you realize, I’ve simply at all times been anxious, or I’ve simply at all times had these bouts of despair, that type of factor, or this self-doubt, this self-confidence situation the place I’m not reaching for that subsequent stage at work, or I’m not stepping out of, you realize, like I, I do know I ought to have the ability to do that, however I, however I’m, I’m stopping myself. I’m, I’m insecure, or I’m, you realize, repeating these relationship patterns or that type of factor. Mm-hmm. All of these items are issues that make you a superb candidate to step into an EMDR therapist’s workplace. Mm mm Then the distinction is whether or not or not that EMDR therapist has eyes to see the way to deal with you. Have they accomplished enough coaching in having the ability to actually, actually like, have that curiosity to, to have a look at what, what’s all this related to? The place did this, this studying happen that’s now left you in a sample of, you realize, responding on this means? What are all these reminiscence networks? And is your mind able to do the precise trauma reminiscence reprocessing, or do we have to do a bunch of fro entrance loading in order that we will get there? It’s oftentimes not the case that somebody can’t do EMDR remedy. It simply means somebody may have to do some extra refined issues to get their mind prepared for it.

Betty Rocker (39:30):

You have got some fairly superb sources for folks at totally different ranges with regards to EMDR. One factor that you’ve is, I bear in mind the EMDR readiness course, which helps folks like me determine whether or not we’re prepared or how, clarify that for me, for those who don’t thoughts.

Susie Morgan (39:50):

So this course has been round for a lot of years, and it’s truly, I might attribute, the triggering of making that course to you truly, oh, cease . As a result of at some point you sat down with me and also you stated, Susie, I’m referring folks out to EMDR remedy on a regular basis now, and so they’re not getting, from their remedy course of what I’m getting with you. And at that time, it precipitated me to self-reflect and say, am I truly doing one thing in a different way? Hmm. And, and I discovered I used to be, and it wasn’t simply because I’m sensible, it was often because I used to be actually hungry to study and insecure. Really, my very own insecurities had been in there the place I used to be like, I have to study extra, I have to study extra. I have to study extra. So I had, I had gone to so many alternative trainings by so many alternative specialists within the discipline, however then my, my energy actually is synthesizing issues collectively, curating and synthesizing these supplies right into a system basically.

(40:48)
And so over time, there’s been a strategy that I’ve developed that began with that course and actually beginning to actually like, sort of, conceptualize it and make it extra concrete that’s now developed out into some broader coaching applications that I can clarify. However, however the readiness course remains to be obtainable. It’s one thing that you are able to do by yourself. It’s virtually like a, a digital like workbook. And it takes you thru the readiness course of. So a number of the steps that you just and I did collectively by way of these, these instruments and people, these expertise that you just developed initially, beginning to actually map out these trauma reminiscence networks as a way to actually do some work by yourself and determine does this EMDR remedy factor is sensible for me? Hmm. The opposite factor is that may be accomplished alongside a therapist, of their course of with you.

(41:40)
For lots of people, it’s actually useful to have the help of a therapist whereas they’re doing these processes. And the primary module of that course says takes you thru some questionnaire that say like, ought to, do you have to do that alone or not? Hmm. And so it, it may allow you to suppose by that course of. The opposite factor that’s now obtainable, that’s additionally on the self-help web page of my web site, which is precisionemdr.com. So for those who go to the self-help web page, you’ll see two various things. One is that readiness course, however one can also be a free 45 minute course that really explains this, this tree idea that we’ve been speaking about. Cool. So that you’re capable of visualize the trauma reminiscence networks, that adaptive data mild tree of data, in order that for those who begin EMDR remedy, you’re entering into actually understanding that entire formulation of it. And it goes extra into what processing seems to be like, that type of factor and what’s taking place within the mind throughout that. So, so that’s free to only check out, there’s, no strings. Yeah.

Betty Rocker (42:45):

That’s a tremendous reward. And what a tremendous useful resource as nicely. After which I feel you’re additionally now, such as you’ve stated, you’ve developed your methodology, you’re now coaching different therapists at totally different, totally different ranges from the graduate stage to all the way in which to individuals who’ve been working towards for a very long time. Is that what you had been telling me? That’s superb. What, what does that contain?

Susie Morgan (43:08):

So there’s two main items. One is now we have an EMDRIA permitted primary coaching, which they’re the bigwigs. They, they, they take you thru a reasonably rigorous course of if you’re growing a program to say, does it, you realize, examine all of the bins. And so we checked all of the bins and what was actually thrilling is, I used to be permitted to have the ability to, to actually use all of this readiness and the goal sequencing, which is the, the why you do, which, which trauma reminiscence first, that type of factor. In addition to all of those attachment items into our primary coaching program. After which now we have additionally a complicated a set of programs. So it’s truly a complete of 33 hours, half one and half two. However half one truly goes by all of this readiness and, and fills within the gaps of what hasn’t been there in a number of that conventional coaching that almost all therapists have gone by. After which half two goes into all of this fancy footwork round how can we restore the attachment system? How can we deal with these addictions? And that sparkle that these maladaptively linked recollections can have and all of that. So it’s, it’s a extremely sturdy superior course that individuals can undergo

Betty Rocker (44:20):

A lot to know, so necessary to be a well-trained practitioner and for us as folks searching for remedy to know as a lot as we will about this in order that we will go into it eyes open, searching for this care. And in addition, you realize, discern being discerning, I suppose, about what we’re gonna obtain. I feel that’s, that’s so necessary. Effectively, you’ve shared your, web site with us and we will additionally comply with you on social media, appropriate. Wanna say your, your deal with,

Susie Morgan (44:55):

It’s @PrecisionEMDR. So it’s precisionEMDR in every single place. So whether or not that’s the web site or the deal with on Instagram or Fb, that’s, that’s the place you’ll find me and discover out what we’re doing. ’trigger I, it’s not simply me, however I even have gathered an exceptional crew of specialists. It’s truly one of many distinctive items of our program is everybody who’s a guide on our coaching crew is an knowledgeable in EMDR, in addition to oftentimes a specialty space or integration with one other remedy mannequin. So, so we will all be discovered there and it’s, it’s actually hopefully going to be increasingly more a strong useful resource for referral sources and all of that for folks all around the, all around the nation. As a result of now we have people who find themselves going by our trainings who’re from all over.

Betty Rocker (45:42):

That’s fantastic and fantastic to consider all the people who find themselves doubtlessly searching for EMDR or possibly didn’t understand how useful EMDR might be for them. And now we’ll have a further useful resource to come back to for details about it, for searching for a practitioner for it, or practitioner searching for extra coaching for it. It’s actually fantastic what you’re creating. And thanks for all of the work that you just do on this world to make it a greater place. We respect you a lot. So thanks. Thanks a lot for approaching and speaking to us as we speak and sharing all of this actually useful data and insights. And thanks for every little thing you’ve accomplished for me as nicely. Like, I might not be this model of the Betty Rocker with out you and all your nice work. So all of you guys listening, I’m so glad that you just had an opportunity to satisfy Susie, ’trigger she’s simply unimaginable and I hope you look her up and lookup her work. And Susie, is there any, like, final phrases, something you wanna depart with us that I didn’t ask or something you wanna say?

Susie Morgan (46:37):

Actually, it’s simply wanting to precise my gratefulness for the chance to come back in right here and discuss this and, and the, the, the platform that you’re utilizing throughout the board to help, particularly girls of their well being on all points of issues. And EMDR is one thing that, such as you stated, it’s a buzzword on the market. Folks discuss it, however they oftentimes don’t know sufficient about it to grasp the way it might truly connect with them, the way it might truly be, actually possibly much more powerfully accomplished if it’s one thing that that they had a, you realize, eh, expertise with earlier than. Issues like that. So I’m simply actually grateful that this was necessary to you to do and, and simply thanks for having me.

Betty Rocker (47:22):

Yay. Effectively, we sit up for speaking to you once more very quickly. And, thanks guys a lot for listening. Yow will discover all the hyperlinks and sources over on the present notes web page for this podcast episode, in addition to Susie’s hyperlinks that she’s already shared. So sit up for speaking to you once more. Until subsequent time, I’m Betty Rocker, and you’re so superior, so flawsome and superb.